Ну, тогда это вопрос к нему, а не ко мне: откуда он все это взял.

Лучше бы Вы сослались на архив, а не на этих, весьма тенденциозных авторов.

Добрый вечер!
И снова Вы знаете больше меня. По-моему, ЦКБ-54 это прототип бомбардировщика. Про самолет сопровождения и все остальные планы по доработке чего-либо слышу впервые. Впрочем, я не специалист в истории конструкций самолетов и могу многого не знать.

Евгений написал:

#1305295
Интересует ветер, его направление, данные по волнению. Заранее Спасибо!

В сборнике документов по Маринеско все это есть, а сборник есть в интернете.
https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=256640&p=1

Hello! Hope you all spent a nice summer ^^

Thank you for the past replies, and here a next batch of unclear-dark episodes of mine-warfare in Black Sea:


6 June 1943

19,20  2 Danube towing barges had sunk due internal explosion near Isacza. 2 more were damaged.
Investigation gave clear prove of sabotage.

Other War diary:

Romanian suspect magnetic mines

I have not exactly located "Isacza", it is possible some local partisan sabotage?



15 June 1943
This is the big and famous case of loss of MFP F-121 (often in past connected with field from submarine K-23).
KTB gave very specific details of the incident: 44 ° 47'N, 35 ° 12'O  mine impact;  44 ° 47'N, 34 ° 57'O  capsized, 44 ° 47'N, 34 ° 57'O   sinking
Additionally there is a specific detail of the alleged mine:

According to report of commander of F-217. Several “drifting canisters with rods on top were sighted  in the bright moonlight. As they might be drifting mine (type of periscope mines)”: minesweeping mission ordered (3 motor minesweepers and 2 RA). However on following day say no mines were swept. They had “oropesa gear with 15 meter pendant”

This description could help identify the type of mines?

Also, according to the site of Black Sea wreck, the possible wreck is located at 44 ° 50'N 35 ° 19'E  (somewhat different from the reported sinking place).



16 June 1943
KTB say "lighter n°1353" struck a mine north of cape Sjuk
Other description say it was towed, sunk in western part of northern outlet of the Strait of Kerch
What could have been/caused the loss? Air-dropped mines?

Отредактированно lupodimare89 (30.08.2018 16:47:27)

Мирослав Эдуардович.в 1941 авиация флота в Прибалтике бомбила танковые колонны,применялись при вылетах бомбы АО-2,5 и капсулы АЖ ? Наносились удары именно по танкам или тыловым колоннам снабжения ,тягачам артиллерии, грузовикам мотопехоты?

Thank you very much. This is very interesting for me. I'll write my comments and answer on your questions later.

Я ее не читал, но судя по названию, ничего хорошего.

Мирослав Эдуардович, добрый день!

Нашел на Каталоге фото




Военком БПЛ КБФ, бригадный комиссар Красников Семён Алексеевич и ... Кронштадт, июнь-октябрь 1942 года.
Судя по пустому столику вручение наград исключается. Друг подсказал, что похоже на минуту молчания.
А в реале проводились какие-то траурные церемонии после гибели/?окончания срока автономности? лодки? Или такого вообще не было?

Botik Petra Velikogo написал:

#1314562
Во-первых, гибель ПЛ это засекреченный факт даже для своего л/с и широкой огласке потери никогда не придавались

незнаю к месту или нет..давно это было рассказывал кап раз..когда был взрослым ребенком..скрыть гибель ПЛ..в местах базирование было невозможно..в частности в одной из баз ПЛ..на Кавказе...в 1942-43г..в городке где жили семьи подводводников..то и дело раздавались крики и плачь среди семей невернувшихся подводников..все знали кто и когда должен вернутся.
/не говоря уже за самих подводников./
скрыть это было невозможно.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1307081
I have not exactly located "Isacza", it is possible some local partisan sabotage?

The modern name - Isaccea, placed some miles to the west of Nulcea on Danube River. No partisan movement in this Romanian region on that time.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1307081
This description could help identify the type of mines?

No.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1307081
Also, according to the site of Black Sea wreck, the possible wreck is located at 44 ° 50'N 35 ° 19'E  (somewhat different from the reported sinking place).

I have no comments to this.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1307081
16 June 1943
KTB say "lighter n°1353" struck a mine north of cape Sjuk
Other description say it was towed, sunk in western part of northern outlet of the Strait of Kerch
What could have been/caused the loss? Air-dropped mines?

The lighter sunk in 45.33 N/36.19 E. Probably she was a victim of an A-I-IV british air-laid mine, which was laid by MO-cutter No.0165 on July 29, 1942.

Greetings and thanks again for your replies!
It is a bit technical and the first time i read it it was just a headache xD

1) Moon appeared at 23.15, illuminating horizon at east
2) MAS-573 observe enemy ships at 01:15 (she was 10 miles from coast).
3) 2 Torpedoes launched at 1.200 metres of distance
4) Soviet reported at 00:53 a surface craft attacking "on the left" of the cruiser. The time-span of 22 minutes is evaluated as important.
5) At the time of the attack there were (from 22:45) torpedo bombers, they received signal of soviet ships at 23:51, but there is no documentation of the attack
6) According Soviet commander, one torpedo-bomber approached at 01:19, ship moved to right and torpedo misse, after 5 minutes two torpedo bombers attacked from both sides. Torpedo hit at 01.27 and at the same time the He-111 4./KG.26 (or 7./KG.26) shot down.
((PERSONAL NOTE: it is unclear from the text if the plane attacked on right or on left, hit reported on the right side)
7) Apparently there is some mismatch with a pilot version (lt Rudi Schmidt 6./KG.26) claiming the air attack occurred on the morning by ten He-111. Stating it was the first and only attack on the ships.
((PERSONAL NOTE: While this statement is took as confirmed thing by the italian author still doesn't explain the plane shot down (( He.111-H6 (1T+JH) pilot Hans-Georg Bacheim)), and if i recall correctly it is likely he committed a solo-attack (with Soviet commander overestimating the number of airplanes).
8) MAS-568 has contact with Soviet ships at 00:15. Can't exactly identify ship because was "on the wrong side toward the moon (aka: east?). The text state the MOLOTOV was fighting claims (so it self-coontradict the point 7)). However the same line state that MAS-573 observed MOLOTOV at "01:18" (mismatch of timezone?) and according the "discordant russian report" MOLOV opened fire on MAS-573 at 01:30 with light weapons.
9) MAS-568 attacked with 2 torpedoes at the BOW of the cruiser and reported hit at 01:30
10) The article state that only after the torpedo attack from MAS-568 were observed "flames and explosions" on MOLOTOV (also by MAS-573) so for this reason "Could not be by torpedo attack)  ((PERSONALLY i find this claim quite debatable)), nor could have been connected with the aircraft shot-down because it occurred 3 minutes earlier (01:27) before the MAS-568. But the same article state the Soviet time can be uncorrect compared with the Italian because "13 minutes of time difference between observing MAS-568 from MOLOTOV) . (PERSONAL NOTE: In the text it is not exactly clear before when MOLOTOV observed MAS-568)
11) The article stress the difference between an explosion of airplane and a cruiser. Stating that if the torpedo hit occurred earlier, it would have been "surely observed by the MAS" ((PERSONAL NOTE: considering they claimed to have sunk a cruiser and damaged by depth charges a destroyer, i have some doubts over what the MAS can claim or can't claim!))
12) The article give confirmation that comandante Legnani was lightly wounded on cheek.
13) The article also report the presence of planes attacking MAS-568 with illuminating bengala but also state this is unclear and would make little sense for Soviet planes to illuminate the area

14) In short the article sum-up and say that ACCORDING SOVIET the Attack of torpedo-bombers and MAS-568 occurred at the same time, and that German Planes attacked MAS-568 ((PERSONAL NOTE: never seen this as a confirmed event!). And that "the only real attack was unsuccessful, on morning by 6./KG.26", then author believe MAS-568 hit MOLOTOV.
((PERSONAL NOTE: All this chain of events are quite thrown together))

15) Author stress that MOLOTOV was attacked from the plane on the "Left side" and the torpedo was avoided. While the hit was on "right side" (on the side of MAS-568). I am not exactly sure, but i THINK the author associate this single torpedo bomber attack with the He.111-H6 (1T+JH)(pilot Hans-Georg Bacheim) shot down.
((NOTE: I have to stress that the MAS claimed neatly to have attacked from the bow (prua_prora), while the torpedo hit was on the stern! (poppa)) This detail is left uncommented by the author)


-----

As personal note, the article is wrote in the usual Italian-militaristic style, at some point calling the Soviet ships, the "Reds" (fascist-era style).

Отредактированно lupodimare89 (09.10.2018 12:32:02)