Объявление

Цусимцы! На нашем форуме размещено много фотографий при помощи сторонних сервисов (Радикал и прочие). К сожалению, некоторые фотохостинги подменяют изображения на другие. Естественно, политической направленности в контексте сегодняшних событий. Это делается без участия форумчан и администрации форума, а дистанционно, через скрипты на этих ресурсах. Просим направлять жалобы на такие посты для оперативного реагирования.
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#126 30.01.2022 13:30:39

HILMI
Участник форума
Откуда: İzmir - Türkiye
Сообщений: 278




Re: Турецкий флот при Калиакрии

1

In "Hadika-i Vakayi", it is written that after the "Tandra" war, a Turkish navy galleon drifted to the shores of Sinop and ran aground. It is stated that two balls weighing 96 scales were removed from this galleon. One of the two galleons sunk in this war is the "Melk-i Bahri" and the other is the "Mansuriye" galleon. This galleon mentioned by our author must be the "Mansuriye" galleon. In other words, this galleon had 2 heavy guns with 96 cantars. We know that other galleons of the same size also have 600 personnel. Probably Mansuriye had the same number of personnel. In Emir Yener's work, we also learn about other types of cannons in this galleon. Using this information, we can calculate the galleon's load. For comparison, I also calculated Europe 64-gun galleons launched on the same dates.

Intrepid (1770).

Length of Gundeck: 48,62 meters.
Breadth: 13,54 meters.
Depth of Hold: 5,79 meters.
TONAJ (Bruthen): 1394 tons.
Guns: 64.
Personel: 500.
Load: 401 tones.
tonnage load: 287 Kg.

Le Roland (1771).

Length of Gundeck: 50,03 meters.
Breadth: 13,16 meters.
Depth of Hold: 6,50 meters.
TONAJ (Bruthen): 1370 tons.
Guns: 64.
Personel: 569.
Load: 394 tones.
tonnage load: 288 Kg.

Aziia (1773) Aziia Class.

Length of Gundeck: 48,77 meters.
Breadth: 13,56 meters.
Depth of Hold: 5,79 meters.
TONAJ (Bruthen): 1404 tons.
Guns: 68.
Personel: 550.
Load: 406 tones.
tonnage load: 289 Kg.

Mansuriye (1772) 51,5 Zira (39,04 m).

Length of Gundeck: 47,68 meters.
Breadth: 14,40 meters.
Depth of Hold: 6,44 meters.
TONAJ (Bruthen): 1521 tons.
Guns: 66.
Personel: 600.
Load: 438 tones.
tonnage load: 288 Kg.

Note: During the summer patrol of 1775, this galleon had 575 personnel. In the 1790 black sea expedition, it should have 600 personnel like other 51.5 galleons.


https://a.radikal.ru/a02/2201/ff/5f5e4b3a7333.jpg

https://c.radikal.ru/c24/2201/00/1ed450412383.jpg

https://b.radikal.ru/b02/2201/0b/9269bf949a24.jpg

https://d.radikal.ru/d10/2201/15/2fcb142ef34d.jpg

Отредактированно HILMI (01.02.2022 00:37:56)

 

#127 30.01.2022 18:23:14

HILMI
Участник форума
Откуда: İzmir - Türkiye
Сообщений: 278




Re: Турецкий флот при Калиакрии

Эд написал:

#1052429
1). 55-Бахр-и Зафер 86-82-72, 1789 г., (заложен в 1784 г.), того же типа, что и погибший при Тендре Мелеки Бахри, флаг капудан-паши. 4-3кантар+24-40; 28-24; от 16 до 24 - 12ф.

I also calculated different alternatives, as I suspect that it may not have the weapons listed above. And I also fixed minor errors in the calculation. I'm considering 3 different configurations for the "Bahr- Zafer" galleon. Depending on the weapons he actually carries, one of them must be real.

Bahr-i Zafer (1789).

FIRST ALTERNATIVE (55,5 zira).

Length of Gundeck: 52.30 meters.
Breadth: 17.06 meters. (22.5 zira).
Depth of Hold: 6.44 meters.
TONAJ (Bruthen): 2299 tons.
Guns: 72.(4x1,5 cantar, 24x14 okka, 30x9 okka, 14x5 okka = 72 cannons).
Personel: 900 (1790).
Load: 699 tones.
tonnage load: 304 Kg.

Note: In my previous calculation, I had calculated 25 half ammo for 1.5 cantar weapons. Now I calculated 50 normal ammo.

SECOND ALTERNATIVE (55 zira).

Length of Gundeck: 51.70 meters.
Breadth: 16.68 meters. (22 zira).
Depth of Hold: 6.44 meters.
TONAJ (Bruthen): 2178 tons.
Guns: 72.(4x1,5 cantar, 24x14 okka, 30x7 okka, 14x3 okka = 72 cannons).
Personel: 900 (1790).
Load: 659 tones.
tonnage load: 302 Kg.

Note: I think this is the most likely alternative.

THIRD ALTERNATIVE (55 zira).

Length of Gundeck: 51.47 meters.
Breadth: 16.30 meters. (21.5 zira).
Depth of Hold: 6.44 meters.
TONAJ (Bruthen): 2080 tons.
Guns: 72.(4x1,5 cantar, 24x11 okka, 30x7 okka, 14x3 okka = 72 cannons).
Personel: 900 (1790).
Load: 628 tones.
tonnage load: 302 Kg.

Note: In this last alternative, the ship's firepower is quite low. I don't think it will be preferred as a captainpaşa ship.

I don't think that the artillery stocks written especially for the Turkish 70-gun galleons in Western country sources fully reflect the truth. In general, it seems to me that Turkish galleons are known with false information in western sources. According to me, the accuracy of the list showing the gun stocks given in the source I got from Mr. Ted is low. Of course, there are parts that contain correct information. But it seemed to me that it was mostly written with hearsay information. I hope our historians one day find and publish the list of ammunition supplied to each ship. Thus, it will be easier for us to reach the truth.

Отредактированно HILMI (01.02.2022 16:37:36)

 

#128 31.01.2022 15:55:21

Rutowsky
Забанен
Сообщений: 511




Re: Турецкий флот при Калиакрии

Таких бы энтузиастов - да в тему турецкой сухопутной армии! :)))


Пусть наступают! Пусть где угодно наступают, хоть во всем свете, но здесь они будут стоять. Будут! Пока мы стоим — здесь они будут стоять!..
А вот чего стало действительно многовато на Цусиме, так это откровенной вкусовщины, двойных стандартов, навязывания личных взглядов, и главное, все под благородным трепом о поиске "истины"...

 

#129 31.01.2022 18:34:04

HILMI
Участник форума
Откуда: İzmir - Türkiye
Сообщений: 278




Re: Турецкий флот при Калиакрии

Rutowsky написал:

#1529755
Таких бы энтузиастов - да в тему турецкой сухопутной армии! ))

Любопытство — ключ к постижению истины.:)

 

#130 07.02.2022 10:49:58

HILMI
Участник форума
Откуда: İzmir - Türkiye
Сообщений: 278




Re: Турецкий флот при Калиакрии

Today, I have provided the historical records and features of the 3 cantar balls in the inventory of the Naval Museum through of Tuncay ZORLU.

Year of Manufacture: 1714/1715 (1126 according to the Hijri year).
Barrel Length: 385 cm. (17 Karis).
Full Length: 443 cm.
Caliber: 525 mm.
Weight: 11,286 kg. (11.3 tons). (The information plate above the cannon reads 209 Weighbridge: 11.8 tons).
Producer: Mustafa Kethüda.

https://c.radikal.ru/c23/2201/31/6f145b6448e3.jpg

Отредактированно HILMI (07.02.2022 21:49:36)

 

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