Hello again, if you've time, i could expose three events... (one should be simple but i basically lost it as recorded event).

All of them focus on other significant asw with some result in Black Sea. (most of them have some kind of explains, thanks the help of igor on axishistory forum).



1)   I remember to have found something about one of the earlier soviet air bombing over Romania with some kind of slight damage on submarine Delfinul and possibly human losses (death or wounded), but i can't find it again.





2) What should be the most effective soviet depth charging in Black Sea:
On 20 November 1943, submarine U-18 reported at hour 13.00 has been attacked in front of Tuapse with 25 depth charges.
A number of damages are recorded:
"Starboard motor and port diesel out of action.
Starboard main clutch badly bont.
Other damage repaired by crew with exception of one foundation bolt in port Diesel engine."
However crew at hour 0115 (of following night)  managed to make work the port diesel works at 5 cylinders

There was a radio contact with the base, commander would have kept on the patrol having still a torpedo, but the command ordered to return because there was only 1 engine operative.
At return it was found that:
"Several battery cells broken
Diesel foundations and starboard diesel engine damaged by fire
Shafting twisted "
On 1 December submarines is said to not be operative until end of January 1944
On 12 December is said to be planned resume operations for 25 January.
This should be the most effective damage caused to a German uboat in Black Sea with DCs.

Igor found multiple possibilities for this attack.
a) an attack of MBR-2 near cape Shache (convoy of tanker Stalin).
b) an attack of MBR-2 50 miles south-west Tuapse.

and finally (as best option)
c)    "   Well, i have luck to posses one book - Deutsche U-Boote zum Schwarzen Meer. It has some KTB-extractions. So for U.18 and 20.11.43: boat was very near of Tuapse at 12.45. 1.5 miles only, so both cases i write before was targeted not at U.18. There is one more MBR-2 which see oil spot only 500 m SW Tuapse. Must be U.18, but i have no time for this event. Then, KTB of U.18 saya only about discovering by plane (or from bridge of one steamer berthed in haven). They say nothing about bombs from aircraft. It say that after sub go to 28 m deep 2-3 patrol boat arrived and drop 52 DC. I have nothing about this in my Chronicle - which boats, real quantity of DC's, nothing. Case stay unclear.   "

This last one seems the most probable: you've some knowledge of the identity of the patrol boats (or who could have been responsible of such attack)?



3) third event should involve the only confirmed direct damage (even if minor)  with DCs caused on a Romanian submarine.

Of the three submarines, the Delfinul has been reported by Romanian to have suffered heavy soviet attacks (with damages) by aircrafts in 1942 but igor found no soviet air attack occurred (few aircrafts available and all focused on ground).
Also the Marsuinul on 22 May 1944, from 04.45 for 3 and half  following hours (and again from 18.31 to 18.58) ,  was subjected to heavy depth-charging north-west of Batumi, but from Romanian accounts it seems that no direct damage was caused. (But this should be confirmed better).


It's seems however more confirmed some damage on Rechinul.
She was on mission in June and had been subjected to friendly fire depth charging but kept on operations.
On day 28 June 1944 reported that around 05.00 (at go Southwest of Novorosiisk, in the area of Cape Idokopass.) "two submarine chasers" launched up 16 depth charges, 4 exploded close and caused minor damages.
Also here igor found some unclear data:
"Explosions on 27.6.44 was headed against U.19, just sunk one soviet barge. Next day one sub was shelled from shore near Pizunda, then second was bombed by Dc's from sub-chaser near Ochamchiri. But this all was in 15.30 and even later, not at morning. Don't forget that i have no full soviet accounts. Or there is some kind of typo with time of attack (on both side)."

You've some data or knowledge about who could have made this attack?

Hello again! Really thank you for your reply!
I had seen it but got terribly busy with university ( i passed an exam and now i've some time before the next one).

It has been of great interest your details of the attack on U-18: especially for the involvment of the seaplane Che-2 (they weren't much common, moreover seaplanes are awesome! (i came from italy and we've a long history of seaplanes building..)

There is no rush for the other two events i've wrote, meanwhile i THINK to have found some little details about the events around 9 December 1944 in Artic.

We had seen how the multiple attacks of the soviet destroyers on day 9 December were not cause of sinking of U-367, but were more probably aimed at U-318.

I've checked the site HM that provides useful diaries of the subs activity and i've actually found this:
U-318 reported a number of attacks these days...

05.12.1944    06u32    1    U318    318    13    WILL Josef    NW    2    Angriff auf Konvoi    in AC88    aanval 3tw op 2 schepen-4 escorts,treffers ?    AC88 
06.12.1944    22u53    1    U318    318    13    WILL Josef    NW    2    Angriff auf Geleitschiff mit T5    in AC88    mislukte aanval,1t op groep destroyers    AC88 
06.12.1944    23u00    2    U318    318    13    WILL Josef    NW    2    Angriff eines Geleitschiffs    JW62-escorts    db-aanval in AC88 tot 05u45,lichte schade    AC88 
09.12.1944    02u26    1    U318    318    13    WILL Josef    NW    2    Angriff eines Geleitschiffs    JW62-escorts    in AC88,db tot 07u26,groep 7 escorts,lichte schade  A88


There are no other events reported before 19.12.1944.
However we have two neat "lichte schade" (=light damages) reported both on 6.12 and 9.12.
Do you think that the soviet destroyers could claim these result on the submarine? And if yes, which destroyers are more likely to have caused it?

igor написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #802680
9.12.44 U.318 was bombed by soviet DD's but only damage was many failures os safety fuse on battery. I can't say if it connected with bombing.

Игорь, так есть же КТВ этой лодки. Вам как бы и карты в руки...

Sorry the little mistake ...
I got recently very busy with university (and i've also terribly slowed down by posts on axishistoryforum)

Thanks for the replies, even it's clear that there could be long time to dig on these attacks...

Now you mentioned them, i've actually seen on HM that U286 mentioned an attack 3 days (6/Dec) early and they also wrote a "USSR ZHESKIJ" as attacker even if with zero results. Same thing (day, result) for U293 but without details about attacker, while both have no record for 9/Dec attacks.
While U997 mentions a failed torpedo attack against ZHIVUCHY  exactly on day 9, but not a word about depth-charging
(attack reported at h 12.50)

But of course there could be holes and lacking events..
I remember there was online an english translated war diary specific of uboats in Norway. It's not-specific as the proper own diary of each boat, but could give some details, i will see about it.

Отредактированно lupodimare89 (01.03.2014 14:48:43)

Ok, i think to have solved that doubt i had for the early air attack on submarine Delfinul.
Found on romanian forum that has been on 3 August 1941:
Raid was made by 18 DB-3F, 18 SB-2 and 6 Pe-2, but only first two groups attacked the naval  attacked the area of the Southern piers.
Delfinul got a single splinter that holed the turret and then flew to hole also the ship Constanta and finally struck a closet igniting a little fire.
The air raid also caused splinter damage on Vifurul (Mtb).
I've read of some wounded but i've been unable to see if one or more were crewmembers of Delfinul.

However damage should have been quickly repaired because Delfinul was on patrol from 12 August.
This should be the only confirmed event of soviet-made damage on Delfinul


And this should leave the (for now unclear) attack of 28 June 1944 on Rechinul as only other soviet asw action against a romanian sub. with some outcome (still light damage).

Hello,

lupodimare89 написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #814405
Shortly after there was a clash between MFP barges  vs  soviet units, sometimes included SKA-057 but that was actually sunk 2 days before, due storm.Germans here claimed to have set afire "1 gunboat".

lupodimare89 написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #814405
First event is for the night between 6 and 7 November 1943On the clashes occurred we have:German aux. minesweepers that clashed against (according soviet source) 2 soviet BK gunboats.Germans claimed to have sunk up to 3 landing crafts,another "hit" and one MTB hit and set afire.

You are mixing two series of clashes in the different places:

Off Eltigen:
R37, R204, R216 had several fights with the Eltigen-convoys and, more successfully, against scattered boats. In several confused clashes KATSh-526 was  damaged, then No.36 sunk, No.55 damaged, No.65 sunk. Also tender No.76 MIA (probably sunk by raumboats). It is a most probably course of events.

By the way, Raumboot wasn't an aux. minesweeper but a small combat ship, multipurpose ship de facto.

North part of the Strait:
BKA-323 and BKA-81 (both S-40 type) against F446, F578, F316 (4th MFP - F335 - was damaged by coastal artillery and broke the mission). MFPs (all?) was slighty damaged. BKA-323 was slightly damaged also. Some sources says BKA-304 from the 2nd patrol pair also took part in the engagement (probably from the great range). Maybe one of army small pontoons was destroyed or damaged but it isn't certain, the bulk of sources says the supply stream through the Strait was unharmed.

lupodimare89 написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #814405
Night between 7 and 8 December 1943

There was nothing off Eltigen at night 7/8.12.43

Regards,
Andrey

Thanks Andrey!

And yes, sadly i starts from documents that are much "condensates", and sometimes it's difficult to split them well.

Only a little clarification, No.36, No.55 and  No.65 were pontoons/crafts or something else?

А. Кузнецов написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #820083
С атакой авиации тоже интересно. Единственный вариант вроде бы - атака 2 Киттихауков 30-го рап в р-не м.Чауда в 07:55 = 05:55 по Берлину, но они атаковали некие точки МЗА, которые и подавили. М.б. видимость была такая, что они раумботы от берега не отличили, или, более вероятно, формулировка в оперсводке неудачная. Тоже вечером посмотрю.

Так по-моему к тому времени немцы практически любой пролетающий рядом самолет уже считали атакующим. В период эвакуации Крыма из-за этого страшная головная боль с определением истинной цели атаки.

Посмотрел всё, что нашел по эпизоду 7/8.12.43

Оказывается, я про этот бой знал - у меня в черновике с морскими боями на ЧМ есть данные с немецкой стороны со знаком вопроса.
Это событие отмечено в KTB ASM и примерно теми же словами в KTB SKL, а больше нигде (не считая упоминания в книге Шнайдера, но там о повреждении не сказано). R196 был объявлен небоеготовым, но быстро отремонтирован и вышел в дозор через 1-2 ночи.

С нашей стороны в дозоре был СКА-036. Отчет по ДО в Эльтиген утверждает, что он встреч с противником не имел, в оперсводках Керченской ВМБ упоминания о бое нет, в отчете ЧФ о применении артиллерии стрельб СКА-036 8.12.43 нет (но там список стрельб полон точно не на 100%). В справке-докладе оперативного дежурного ФКП ЧФ этого тоже нет.

Но ЖБД Керченской ВМБ всё же дает намёк. В 02:10 8.12 было получено РДО от СКА-036: "Окружен противником". Ему приказали срочно вернуться в Кротков. История развития не получила. В следующий раз СКА-036 упомянут вечером 8.12 в числе катеров, отправленных в Кордон Ильича для участия в Митридатской операции.

В общем, после падения Эльтигена фокус сместился к Митридату, а события в южной части пролива оказались на обочине мировой истории. И этот бой как-то потерялся.

Можно предположить, что СКА-036 всё же пробил бак на R196, а сам не пострадал. Возможная маленькая победа «по очкам» в морском бою.
М.б. уважаемый VAS63 что-то сможет добавить.

Относительно воздушной атаки. В оперсводке ВВС ЧФ оказалась пропущена часть донесения 30-го рап. 2 «Киттихаука» действительно штурмовали точки МЗА в р-не м.Чауда, но до этого сделали 2 захода по 3 катерам К=270 V=20 узлов, результатов не наблюдали. Время штурмовки не указано, вылет 07:15-08:15. Т.е. раумботы всё доложили правильно.

Отредактированно А. Кузнецов (05.04.2014 00:46:09)

Thank you very much ^^

Sorry, haven't any document of RSI navy or USN.

Ясно. Я не понял, кто конкретно спрашивает, и на всякий случай ответил на ломаном английском.

Интересно, сохранились ли какие-нибудь документы флота республики СалО.

Попробуйте у него на аксисе спросить например в http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. … 9#p1869439 или лучше там в личке.