Thank you for clarification!

Here the first half of mine sinking I've gathered for 1944 in Baltic Sea.
(only the last one is a full question, feels free to reply at the others only if you need to correct me on something. And as ever, big thanks and take your time).






21 february 1944
"R222 was stricken by Soviet mine."
I think it's an obvious mistake, because she was sunk in Schleimünde, it was obviously a RAF mine.


A bit more uncertain is
11 April 1944
R-27 sunk by mine.
Wrecksite say it was a air raid on Pillau.


The case of minelayer ROLAND on 21 April 1944 should be clear: sunk on her own mines laid the previous night.
(with large human losses).


Other two almost sure cases are sinking of M-553 and M-515 (on 21 April, and 22 May), both should be by RAF mines.



Another case of friendly mine was on 14 June 1944
R-73 sunk in Gulf of Finland, but it is reported from Seeigel barrage.



Then, reading on HM site, for the story of MFP F-194 here there are some interesting reports.

- 06/21/1944 In air raids on the mine barrier locking vehicles is AF 32 sunk, 194 damaged F [2].
- 07 08.1944 AF and 21, F 194, F 237, F 258 and F 259 damaged in mine operations or in the lockout mechanism [2].

Exactly what happened to these units? were victims (sunk/damaged) by aircrafts or mines?



Finally the FIRST ONE for 1944 that seems a potential victory for a soviet field.
on 10 August 1944, loss of R-70 close Pukkio.
Actually on KTB it seems it was midnight between 11 and 12 August, sinking occurred “seven to ten miles southerly of Pukko” and it is clearly stated by enemy mine.
Commander and 9 men alive.

Thank you again, here the next part for summer and autumn 1944 in Baltic:


It should be safe to assume that the damage suffered by torpedo boat T-155 on 21 August, at Greifswalder Oie, was from RAF mine (declared total loss).


On the case of loss of AF-35 and AF-50 on 28 August, thanks for the anticipated confirmation!
As additional minor info, the english translated KTB talked of AF-35 as "capsized" westerly of Kiuskeri and AF-50 beached northerly Pukkio.


On 31 August the uboat U-1000 struck a mine and was taken out of service as consequence.
The loss is described as from RAF laid mine off Pillau from the field "Tangerine".
I guess there is little chances of Soviet air-dropping mines too? (Pillau is not Denmark after all)


Another one that apppears to be a good confirmation:
Loss of S-80 motor torpedo boat close Viborg on 1 September 1944.
It is known that was part of a failed attempt to damage the wreck of U-250, and the field is described as soviet-made.
Who laid the mine here?



An newly discovered one (to me) is MFP F-173
Struck a mine on 15 September and seems totally lost  the next day.
Location should be Gogland island. So it could be soviet, who could have laid it?
Here the link on HM:   http://www.historisches-marinearchiv.de … _value=301



Last one for September is loss of patrol ship V-6719 on 26 September 1944.
It was close Swinemünde so I guess RAF-laid.

Добрый день Мирослав Эдуардович..
Не подскажете, как на правильно по-русски будет звучать  Katapultschiff ? Имеется в виду германское судно ВВС "Schwabenland".

Отредактированно CAM (16.10.2015 21:17:28)

Botik Petra Velikogo написал:

#996340
"плавбаза гидроавиации"

Спасибо. Понял.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1001491
We could not have a range of the best options?  Because it is a very particular loss (MTB, not much common loss here, and related to U-250 loss).
We can't at least reduce to Finnish/Soviet or German/Soviet, or it remain a big question mark?

I don't see any possibilities to make a conclusions to a drifting mine.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1001491
I guess was from RAF mines

I guess too.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1001491
MA5 (ex-Søhesten)    damaged 11/1944, never repaired (later Danish Søhesten)

I never heared abot this ship earlier and I can't confirm this info.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1001491
Another source report (I think wrongly?) on 1942.

No, Dirschau lost without a trace in December 1942 (probably 2.12.1942).

lupodimare89 написал:

#1001491
However I've also found a curious mention of the merchant for 17 August 1944:  https://archive.org/stream/wardiarygerm … 0/mode/2up

I can't open this page. Could you make a screenshot?

lupodimare89 написал:

#1001491
Vänersborg (  Sweden)
cargo ship struck a mine and sank 20 nautical miles (37 km) off the Utklippan Lighthouse with the loss of nineteen of her twenty crew

She was sunk by a torpedo from K-56.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1003533
Concerning Dirschau loss I could find little data about it. Where she was lost? and what are options of this loss? (weather or other..)

lupodimare89 написал:

#1003533
My guessing is as I said some minor or moderate damage that could have been fixed before the ultimate loss of the vessel.

I can only say that the ship went to Sasnitz by her own power.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1003533
Do you have Soviet data of this engagement? (occurred on 16 August)

I'm not interesting of combat actions on lakes and rivers.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1007657
Schwarzort, if I am correct is Juodkrantė (just south of Klaipeda)

You are right.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1007657
that we know of being untouched and discovered by Germans only in June 1943

I hear about this discovering for the first time. In what documents you found this fact?

lupodimare89 написал:

#1007657
Dec 2, 1942; 762 GRT; W of Memel; torpedoed by a Soviet submarine

No one sub at sea on that time.

lupodimare89 написал:

#1007657
you think that "Dirschau" could be mentioned like "Tristan" and  "Grundsee" as a possibility for the L-3?

No, I think, no one from this ship could be a victim of subs' mines because the normal "living time" for this mines was no more than 9-12 months.

#1007657
    that we know of being untouched and discovered by Germans only in June 1943

I hear about this discovering for the first time. In what documents you found this fact?

    lupodimare89 написал:

    #1007657
    Dec 2, 1942; 762 GRT; W of Memel; torpedoed by a Soviet submarine

No one sub at sea on that time.

    lupodimare89 написал:

    #1007657
    you think that "Dirschau" could be mentioned like "Tristan" and  "Grundsee" as a possibility for the L-3?

No, I think, no one from this ship could be a victim of subs' mines because the normal "living time" for this mines was no more than 9-12 months.

Sorry! My big mistake. This potentially successful field was the one laid on 5 November 1942  (7 mines, if I am correct).
The German information came here:
http://i.imgur.com/2Sfo3wJ.png

EDIT: the data came from the english translation of main German KTB, they are generic and not keep all information, but sometimes it happens to find interesting ones like this.



It seems fitting because they say clearly submarine-laid, and evaluated it was laid 9 months before (not far from  November 1942)


As I said before, it can not be something of confirmed because the merchants were lost without trace (except these escape boats from "Dirschau", found exactly close Memel, possibly ruling out option she was lost at the beginning of the voyage), but maybe worth to be mentioned as an option, until wrecks of ships could be eventually identified.

Отредактированно lupodimare89 (22.11.2015 14:12:59)

Фёдор 1979 написал:

#1007669
ирослав Эдуардович интересует такой момент: в ваших книгах "Хроника боевых походов" и "Подводные крейсеры Сталина" вы пишите, что 13 мая 1945 года К-53 потопила один немецкий катер; в то же время согласно "Хронике Великой Отечественной Войны.." катеров было два. Не могли бы вы уточнить это расхождение. Кроме того в "Хронике ВОВ" говорится, что лодка провела осмотр катеров, нет ли у вас информации о результатах этого осмотра, или может быть есть своё мнение о том, что это были за катера?

С уважением, Фёдор.

Hello again!

It is just a case, but the next interesting event involving mine-sinking in Baltic Sea it's also a big event that could need new assessment after new discoveries.
I remember well the good description given by Kuznetsov into his article and I report here the basic actual knowledge as reference took from a forum's post by vas63

По поводу U-679 и МО-124
Сайт http://www.uboat.net/ не является истиной в первой инстанции. Там высказано чье-то личное мнение, по моему разумению - ничем не подтвержденное и сомнительное.
9 января МО-124 вместе с МО-106 и СК-175 находился в охранении шести тральщиков, следовавших из Таллина для постановки минного заграждения. В 18.11 в точке Ш=59º27,8, Д=24º03,7 МО-124 обнаружил шум подлодки (это могла быть и U-637, также находившаяся в этом районе) и с 18.24 до 18.45 четыре раза атаковал, израсходовав 8 бомб Б-1 и 20 М-1. Признаков повреждения лодки не наблюдалось. С 22.00 до 05.50 в районе обнаружения лодки безрезультатно проводили поиск три катера МО-581, 592, 615, подошедшие из дозоров № 22 и 23. Часто приводимая как результат этой атаки гибель U-679 вряд ли имела место в данном случае, поскольку U-679 перестала выходить на связь еще с 27 декабря. Наиболее вероятной причиной ее гибели являются наши противолодочные минные поля.
Целью атаки МО-124 могла быть U-637 или вообще ложный контакт (что наиболее вероятно). ПЛ U-679 теоретически, конечно, могла быть потоплена МО-124, но доказательств этому нет, сама лодка не обнаружена. Поэтому разговор об обстоятельствах ее гибели беспредметный.

The news come to the actual discovery of the wreck by Finnish diver into Estonian waters in August 2015 (article on September 2015).

Here the link of the brief article: http://www.suunto.com/it-IT/sports/News … boat-U679/
And here the full video on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/subzoneltd/vid … 266947715/

Some key data:
1) The exact coordinates are not given (it seems to prevent for now other diving that could cause damages or stole items?).
2) Depth of wreck was 90 metres
3) They clearly speak about a row of mines laid  in January 1945, some kind implying the loss of the submarine was due this nearby field.


Exactly what it was the consistence and location of these new fresh mine-field in the area? I know some mines were laid by MO boats...
It would be very interesting to eventually discover and finally make a full assessment of who caused the loss of the u-boat.
Not to mention that, if confirmed, this should be the only enemy submarines sunk by a Soviet-laid mine (excluding the very small chances for U-479 we've talked before, while U-745 and U-676 were lost on Finnish-laid mines).

Отредактированно lupodimare89 (14.12.2015 18:26:47)

Oh interesting!
Who were the ships that laid this nearby mine field?

The soviet minesweepers, but their mines was of 1908-year type couldn't suffer so big damages to the sub's hull.

Oh... Fugas-class minesweepers? It's known which units were involved in the laying?

Um... there was no nearby field of M-26 mines close? (and who laid them?)

It's not possible that damage was amplified by spare torpedoes? (especially if it was on the bow).

Sorry for the flowing of questions, I would like to exactly identify who are the most possible reponsable ships of this submarine loss.