В качестве успеха сов. надводного флота решил добавить уничтожение герм. ПЛ «U 745» и ПЛ «U 676» на мин. заграждении, выставленном фин. МЗ «Лоухи»: это было выполнено согласно плану штаба КБФ, и «Лоухи» в данном случае был исполнителем (фактически выполнял роль сов. корабля)

Об этом сказано и М. Морозовым на TM:
https://dzen.ru/video/watch/61cde408506ea34ef46703f6

(таймкод 01:04:46)

Отредактированно Mike DuGalle (17.01.2025 23:49:53)

Sorry for the mistake by rush/hour obviosly the two motorboats were intercepted on 30 August 1943 (corrected in my post). It was during the Taganrog liberation
Also didn't know that detail provided by igor, just so-far these two crafts are left unnamed and there are no Ultra/KTB that i know that provide this info.



Also this is very interesting!

Mike DuGalle написал:

#1636086
lupodimare89 написал:

#1635501
Minesweeper FR-12 sunk on 11/10/41 by mines laid by schooner "Chaika"

According to Morozov, the ship was sunk by gunboat (KL) mines

Morozov himself in a question&answers told about a field laid by this schooner. When he wrote about gunboats? It's a more recent update?
Also he specify the gunboats? (suggested  Krasnaya Gruziya & Krasnyy Adzharistan or their sisters?)



Concerning U-745 and U-676, while I would like to see grow the list of Soviet Navy successes, personally I disagree. It's true the Soviet Navy asked-organized these but effectively it was a Finnish ship (independent Navy and independent country that passed to Allied sides) that scored the sinking. It COULD be included as shared if there was some trace of Soviet boats dropping mines themselves, but for what i know they provided only guidance and escort. Worth definitely to be mentioned in text and books, but who scored the success should be Louhi alone.


"U 479" it's big question mark. Theorically it possible it was old survived mine from the large field laid by Marti & other vessels at the beginning of war. But there were also lots German drifting mines as well.


"U 679". Was addressed on this forum some time ago: exact coordinates are not disclosed i think to avoid plundering but it match with one of the lines of barrage from Soviet minesweepers: T-352, T-354, T-370, T-371 and T-372. However the the submarine wreck appears to have suffered cathastrophic damages with the bow section almost ripped-off and M.Morozov said the Soviet mines were too small to cause such damage so he believed it was due a German floating mine.
Theorically another group of minesweepers (T-352, T-354, T-356, T-370, T-371, T-378) laid larger mines on a different point... i don't know if Morozov studied the possibility that one or more of these mines went floating or there could be some mis-reporting in coordinates of the field (happened in other situation).

Отредактированно lupodimare89 (18.01.2025 00:14:54)

lupodimare89 написал:

#1636427
Concerning U-745 and U-676, while I would like to see grow the list of Soviet Navy successes, personally I disagree. It's true the Soviet Navy asked-organized these but effectively it was a Finnish ship (independent Navy and independent country that passed to Allied sides) that scored the sinking

Personally, I see it this way: the operation was carried out by the Soviet Navy, the Finns were only the performers. The Soviet Navy was involved in the sinking of these submarines.
Miroslav Morozov also focuses on this.

Отредактированно Mike DuGalle (18.01.2025 00:35:05)

pavel123 написал:

#1636491
Финские корабли входили в состав КБФ? Нет, насколько я знаю. Значит и победа принадлежит им.

С другой же стороны, они (в данном случае МЗ "Лоухи") эту победу одержали не сами по себе или же в рамках директив ВМФ Финляндии, а выполняя указания именно из штаба КБФ (это была операция КБФ против действовавших герм. ПЛ, финны были лишь исполнителями).

Да, это успех финнов (что я и подчеркнул). Но это также и успех КБФ тоже, ибо финны действовали по указаниям из штаба КБФ

Отредактированно Mike DuGalle (18.01.2025 20:50:19)

pavel123 написал:

#1636524
Mike DuGalle написал:

#1636501

Да, это успех финнов (что я и подчеркнул). Но это также и успех КБФ тоже, ибо финны действовали по указаниям из штаба КБФ

Да, это так. И поэтому в этой теме "Успехи советских надводных кораблей (кроме ТКА)" этим успехам не место. Это успехи штаба КБФ и финляндских надводных кораблей.

Здесь Вы правы. Поставлю их отдельно

Отредактированно Mike DuGalle (19.01.2025 06:40:26)

lupodimare89 написал:

#1635689
AZOV SEA
+ fishing boat "MFK-2263" on 19/Jun/42. Mine by SKA-038 and SKA-0118
+ Aux. patrol boat "WM-2412" on 25/Jul/42. Destroyed in combat by SKA-0175 with TKA-154. 2 POW. Germans apparently found the wreck but unclear if it was raised&repaired.
+ Siebel-type barge of Heer on 28/Jul/42. Mine laid by SKA-0175. Heavy human losses.
+ Landing craft MFP "F-133" on 10/Aug/42. Mine laid by SKA-0175. Total loss.
+ Siebel-type barge of Luftwaffe on 10/Aug/42. Mine laid by SKA-0175.
+ Croat Ustasha minesweeping boat "S-I" on 15/Aug/42. Mine laid by SKA-0175
+ Siebel-type barge "SF-123" of Luftwaffe on 16/Aug/42. Mine laid by SKA-0175
+ German tug "Hoflein" on 24/Jul/43. Mine laid by SKA-0412 and SKA-0712
+ Merchant "Immanuel" (143 GRT). Carried manganese ore. on 29/Jul/43. Mine by SKA-0412, BK-121 and BK-122
+ fishing boat "T-265" on 6/Aug/43. Mine laid by BK-124, BK-134, BK-311, BK-313
+ German minesweeping boat "RM-01" on 8/Aug/43. Mine laid by BK-124, BK-134, BK-311, BK-313
+ Lighter "L-2109" on 23/Aug/43. Carried artillery shells casings. Mine by SKA-0412 and BK-124
+ Aux. patrol boat on 30/Aug/43. Attacked by BK-111 and surrendered. 10 POWs, 3 dead (one by suicide and two attempting escape), sunk while in tow.
+ Aux. patrol boat on 30/Aug/43. captured or intentionally surrendered to KATSh-176. 4 Ukainians POW claimed to have defected the Germans.

What is the location of the sinking of these ships?

lupodimare89 написал:

#1639595
MFK2263 -  From German KTB: 4 miles south Mariupol. 2 Ukrainian dead, 2 seriously wounded.
(I know this is a dubious loss, Morozov himself first said me both reasons with a "probable" for aviation"

Siebel of 28 July. From German KTB: 6 miles south of Mariupol outside the channel, many casualties.
F-133 probable coordinates: 46 ° 42'N 38 ° 10'E, for her and the Siebel lost on the same day the German KTB say: "1 Landing craft and 1 ferry sank during these operations off Yeisk in the close vicinity of the coast on 10 August as result of mine hits."  The landing craft was obviously the MFP.
Same location for the croatian craft, from KTB: "One of the vessels of the motor minesweeper group was sunk by mine while leaving Jeisk”. "

Immanuel off Mariupol. T265, RM01 and L2109 off Taganrog
SF-123 is quite complicated. A German source said that the craft sunk on 16/August occurred on Mariupol and i starts to believe that the one named "SF123" was actually the Siebel lost on 10 August. But as i said data and proper names of not-Kriegsmarine Siebel crafts it's scarce and likely lost forever

Hoflein sunk off Temryuk, in the southern part of the Sea of Azov.

Thanks!

Отредактированно Mike DuGalle (20.02.2025 10:58:18)